I was married and a young mother in the fifties--barely out of my teens. I can tell you there were already plenty of us who were sickened by these ads. And we said so.
I'm curious...movies and tv portray women in the 50 as men-minded. For example, we see women going to college not for a proper education but mainly to find a husband. Was it really like that?
Yes, there was a lot of that. Women who wanted to go to college to become scientists or economists or engineers--or anything that was solely a man's world--knew going in it would be a battle they probably weren't going to win. The odds were against them since men were going to do everything they could to keep them out of their workplaces.
They were the brave ones, the tough ones. So it stood to reason that many women did see college as the place to meet men who would be successful enough to allow them to marry up. It was a thing. They saw what those other women went through and thought it was the only way out for them.
Remember, too, that there were no no-fault divorces back then. They were digging themselves a hole in more ways than one.
It's why when Betty Friedan and the early feminists came along with those new ideas of independence they were greeted like an army of saviors. And things did change. Not as fast as we would have liked, and not as ironclad as we thought. So here we are again. We oldsters are mighty pissed, and for good reason. Those early battles were hard on us.
As if we need more reminders of what a horrible time the 50s were, right? Somewhere in time that this regime wants to jettison us to (when not aiming for more archaic timelines). Makes you want to take that tie and strangle them with it (of course that may not be considered "ladylike"). Thank you for this reminder. Maybe it's time to harken back to the revolutionary times (and I don't mean the white men's American Revolution). I'm thinking more of the Feminists movement or the poor people's French Revolution, or the Black Panthers and black people marching and sitting-in. I had a wonderful "Women's History" Teacher. I wish at the time that I could have taken "Black History" and "Hispanic History" also, and maybe "Indigenous People's" history as well. These specialized classes seem to be the only way to get a more honest portrayal of our whitewashed "American" history.
I hope that in the subsequent moments of this illustration, she turned the tray on his shirt and tie. And who wears a shirt and tie in bed? Scandalous!
The irony is that I'm not even sure Don Draper would've liked this ad, as shitty of a person as he could be. I've been rewatching Mad Men a bunch this year so it's on my mind lol
but yeah this ad sucks and is creepy. Hope we don't see another version of it in our era.
It's tough to really say. I just meant that even a character like Don may not appreciate this brand of sexism.
To be clear he is still absolutely sexist and I'd argue abusive to his wives. However, I also think his kind of sexism isn't always going to be blatant like this ad is.
Yes and no on your comment "I'd argue abusive to his wives" there's no doubt is there (he was)? Is that the patriarchy "casting a spell" to make one think that "give them the benefit of the doubt" is a valid position/perspective to take in that period drama. No - call it out for what it is misogeny with a capital M.
I don't think we're really disagreeing here as much as it seems. I framed it how I did not to be dismissive but because I just meant that it was my take of the show. Again, I'm not here to be a Don apologist. I hate how many people watch the show and completely miss how miserable and hollow his approach to life is or how much destruction he causes.
We are rightly horrified at these ads because of the overt sexism/stereotypical gender roles enforcement from the 50s. Of course, this was on the back of the end of WW2 when women had been working hard in “background” jobs like being land workers, and many other roles typically done by men, so these ads were to make sure women knew that the men were back and wanted their jobs.
Adverts these days are more subtle in their expression of reinforcing gender roles, but they are still there. The bumbling dad trope, women’s safety being ignored and so on. See this piece:
When I say that marriage and living with men and the nuclear family. Must die out as a social structure this is why. Men are always fine with any level of harm and humilaition and impoverishment for women. They hate us so deeply they don't even see it as hate. They see it as treating us like the thing they think we are. As if a human being should ever have a life like those poor women did.
I’m credits short from the gender studies minor (grizzly material while I was pregnant, and under coercive abuse so limited it to history and political science).
One thing I point out is how men and boys are most often in stable positions (two feet on the ground, squared off, in balance) while women and girls are bent, twisted, dipped, spinning, on one foot, etc…
The best example I had was for back to school clothes.
They start pushing this symbolism young.
Which is so weird because I’ve had so few “stable” men in my life. 🙃
Honestly, it just reeks of projecting superiority because of inferiority. Tie-ing (pun intended) the whole concept of manhood and the “natural” order of dominating women to project strength just screams “I have nothing else worthwhile to show for”.
I was married and a young mother in the fifties--barely out of my teens. I can tell you there were already plenty of us who were sickened by these ads. And we said so.
Just curious: were you castigated for "not being able to take a joke"?
I remember the "humorless feminist" stereotype from my youth, and I was wondering how far back that goes.
Oh yeah. Always
I'm curious...movies and tv portray women in the 50 as men-minded. For example, we see women going to college not for a proper education but mainly to find a husband. Was it really like that?
Yes, there was a lot of that. Women who wanted to go to college to become scientists or economists or engineers--or anything that was solely a man's world--knew going in it would be a battle they probably weren't going to win. The odds were against them since men were going to do everything they could to keep them out of their workplaces.
They were the brave ones, the tough ones. So it stood to reason that many women did see college as the place to meet men who would be successful enough to allow them to marry up. It was a thing. They saw what those other women went through and thought it was the only way out for them.
Remember, too, that there were no no-fault divorces back then. They were digging themselves a hole in more ways than one.
It's why when Betty Friedan and the early feminists came along with those new ideas of independence they were greeted like an army of saviors. And things did change. Not as fast as we would have liked, and not as ironclad as we thought. So here we are again. We oldsters are mighty pissed, and for good reason. Those early battles were hard on us.
I just googled their ad archive, what a treasure trove of horrors indeed. Barf.
As if we need more reminders of what a horrible time the 50s were, right? Somewhere in time that this regime wants to jettison us to (when not aiming for more archaic timelines). Makes you want to take that tie and strangle them with it (of course that may not be considered "ladylike"). Thank you for this reminder. Maybe it's time to harken back to the revolutionary times (and I don't mean the white men's American Revolution). I'm thinking more of the Feminists movement or the poor people's French Revolution, or the Black Panthers and black people marching and sitting-in. I had a wonderful "Women's History" Teacher. I wish at the time that I could have taken "Black History" and "Hispanic History" also, and maybe "Indigenous People's" history as well. These specialized classes seem to be the only way to get a more honest portrayal of our whitewashed "American" history.
They had to give the men a push to voluntarily wear a noose... and an ugly one at that. Patrarchy is bad for men too.
I was thinking something similar, but you said it perfectly.
I hope that in the subsequent moments of this illustration, she turned the tray on his shirt and tie. And who wears a shirt and tie in bed? Scandalous!
I believe this is what the denizens of the “manosphere” mean when they talk about “the good old days”. Makes my skin crawl.
The irony is that I'm not even sure Don Draper would've liked this ad, as shitty of a person as he could be. I've been rewatching Mad Men a bunch this year so it's on my mind lol
but yeah this ad sucks and is creepy. Hope we don't see another version of it in our era.
I am not sure if Don Draper didn't like it... It's maybe more that we (I) don't like watching... what it was actually like in that time.
It's tough to really say. I just meant that even a character like Don may not appreciate this brand of sexism.
To be clear he is still absolutely sexist and I'd argue abusive to his wives. However, I also think his kind of sexism isn't always going to be blatant like this ad is.
Yes and no on your comment "I'd argue abusive to his wives" there's no doubt is there (he was)? Is that the patriarchy "casting a spell" to make one think that "give them the benefit of the doubt" is a valid position/perspective to take in that period drama. No - call it out for what it is misogeny with a capital M.
I don't think we're really disagreeing here as much as it seems. I framed it how I did not to be dismissive but because I just meant that it was my take of the show. Again, I'm not here to be a Don apologist. I hate how many people watch the show and completely miss how miserable and hollow his approach to life is or how much destruction he causes.
Absolutely sickening and disgusting.
We are rightly horrified at these ads because of the overt sexism/stereotypical gender roles enforcement from the 50s. Of course, this was on the back of the end of WW2 when women had been working hard in “background” jobs like being land workers, and many other roles typically done by men, so these ads were to make sure women knew that the men were back and wanted their jobs.
Adverts these days are more subtle in their expression of reinforcing gender roles, but they are still there. The bumbling dad trope, women’s safety being ignored and so on. See this piece:
https://www.theothersandme.com/blog/sneaky-sexism-within-advertising
There’s something really powerful about turning personal experience into language other people finally feel seen by.
That kind of writing stays with people.
When I say that marriage and living with men and the nuclear family. Must die out as a social structure this is why. Men are always fine with any level of harm and humilaition and impoverishment for women. They hate us so deeply they don't even see it as hate. They see it as treating us like the thing they think we are. As if a human being should ever have a life like those poor women did.
WTF is that???
They said “ I don’t know how to define pornography, but I know it when I see it.”
I see it.
I love old ads for this stuff.
I’m credits short from the gender studies minor (grizzly material while I was pregnant, and under coercive abuse so limited it to history and political science).
One thing I point out is how men and boys are most often in stable positions (two feet on the ground, squared off, in balance) while women and girls are bent, twisted, dipped, spinning, on one foot, etc…
The best example I had was for back to school clothes.
They start pushing this symbolism young.
Which is so weird because I’ve had so few “stable” men in my life. 🙃
I'd say it goes beyond "devotional offering" of the breakfast tray -- to me this looks like out-and-out WORSHIP. Ugh.
And I just, after all these years, realized how phallic ties are.
Honestly, it just reeks of projecting superiority because of inferiority. Tie-ing (pun intended) the whole concept of manhood and the “natural” order of dominating women to project strength just screams “I have nothing else worthwhile to show for”.