This is really well written. I could highlight half of it easily. But I kind of wish you'd shared his reply. Because I was really curious to know which "ideas" he thought were good
As a previous educator, I appreciate that you didn’t call him out. I’ll admit, I was very curious, but the reality is that whatever he was rationalizing, it wasn’t the point.
So good to know. I mean, the fact that he asked was a pretty vulnerable major step. I wonder if it was easier for him in an online class. I taught high school online for years, and I definitely felt like some of my students would’ve been less inclined to discuss their lives and ideas after class had we been in person. My office hours were some of my favorite teachable moments.
That's fair, and sounds like the kind of thing I'd do. Curiosity sometimes gets the best of me before logic steps in. I love what you're doing and so glad I found your work. I will be sharing with my readers :)
This article contains so much value well beyond Andrew Tate. It clearly connects the serious concerns about what many men think of women to the weakness of a gender who refuses to become self-aware because they think it’s working for them to not change or grow. Appreciate the photo reference to The Pitt and Ted Lasso because they not only represent more self-aware men, but encourage men who keep at it.
If we could help future generations see the truths you share, we could leave this world so much better off. Some days it feels impossible, but I greatly appreciate your contribution to better understanding and hopefully, one day, a more equal society.
Thank you! I really do hope we can build a world that is better for everyone, that let's men have positive feelings that they express openly and not just negative ones. And a world where women don't have to fear men who listen to this kind of "self-help."
Your description of Tate making vague nods to virtue like exercise reminds me of my reading of Jordan Peterson - good idea; yes, I agree, solid point, what the hell?; Where did that come from? Lobsters?
Very, very good. You've distilled the important points into a stiff brew. To be taken in moderation. Young men--no, all men need to hear you. There are so few men to show as models. Only weasels, grifters, liars, pedos, cultists, and reality deniers who swim together in an endless swamp of anti-intellectual sludge.
Andrew Tate having good ideas is impossible. Loved the article, and loved reading about it all. Shame that there's men who are still for Andrew Tate as he's a lot of words which aren't substack appropriate. Keep up the great work and thanks for posting about this.
I could not find anything in your article about what the youth actually said other than the initial statement. So your essay is just a bunch of slogans and rhetoric. I guess you don’t teach journalism.
I don't think you are getting that this post is not about what he specifically said. It's about the fact that even a student taking a course on women's history can be taking in by this shit.
He came up to you after class and I still don’t know how your conversation went.
I’m a psychotherapist. It takes more than one session to help someone. Instead of seeing this as a teaching moment it seems you saw it as an outrage moment and an opportunity to create more outrage on Substack maybe so you can get more Likes and Subscribers.
But once you ask, “Which ideas?” the whole thing begins to wobble.
Because if the “good idea” is “men should exercise,” that is not an Andrew Tate idea. That is a gym teacher idea. That is a doctor idea. That is a “your knees will start making rice cereal noises after thirty” idea.2
If the “good idea” is “young men should take responsibility for their lives,” that is not Andrew Tate. That is every grandmother, coach, mentor, therapist, and exhausted older sibling who has ever looked at a young man playing video games for thirteen hours straight and said, “Please drink water and apply for something.”
If the “good idea” is “men are lonely and need guidance,” fine. True. Let’s talk about it. Young men are lonely. Many are isolated. Many are angry. Many are emotionally underdeveloped because they have been raised in a culture that treats tenderness like a design flaw and vulnerability like an invasive species. That is a real problem.
No. I teach history. Which you'd know if you actually read the post with any attention. There's 3 paragraphs where I talk about "good ideas" which I debunk. Each of them was paraphrased from the student.
This is really well written. I could highlight half of it easily. But I kind of wish you'd shared his reply. Because I was really curious to know which "ideas" he thought were good
I implied it in the text. I wasn't going to directly quote him, because I already feel a bit bad calling him out, even without his name.
As a previous educator, I appreciate that you didn’t call him out. I’ll admit, I was very curious, but the reality is that whatever he was rationalizing, it wasn’t the point.
Exactly! And he did listen to my points at the time I think and certainly wasn't internalizing the worst parts of Tate's views.
So good to know. I mean, the fact that he asked was a pretty vulnerable major step. I wonder if it was easier for him in an online class. I taught high school online for years, and I definitely felt like some of my students would’ve been less inclined to discuss their lives and ideas after class had we been in person. My office hours were some of my favorite teachable moments.
That's fair, and sounds like the kind of thing I'd do. Curiosity sometimes gets the best of me before logic steps in. I love what you're doing and so glad I found your work. I will be sharing with my readers :)
He was a good student. Honestly curious and willing to learn. I hope he took my lessons and did better going forward.
I loved this. You had a lot of great clarifying points/statements that stand out on their own in communicating a big message.
Thank you! I learned to do that with teaching. It helped cement ideas.
This article contains so much value well beyond Andrew Tate. It clearly connects the serious concerns about what many men think of women to the weakness of a gender who refuses to become self-aware because they think it’s working for them to not change or grow. Appreciate the photo reference to The Pitt and Ted Lasso because they not only represent more self-aware men, but encourage men who keep at it.
If we could help future generations see the truths you share, we could leave this world so much better off. Some days it feels impossible, but I greatly appreciate your contribution to better understanding and hopefully, one day, a more equal society.
Thank you! I really do hope we can build a world that is better for everyone, that let's men have positive feelings that they express openly and not just negative ones. And a world where women don't have to fear men who listen to this kind of "self-help."
Your description of Tate making vague nods to virtue like exercise reminds me of my reading of Jordan Peterson - good idea; yes, I agree, solid point, what the hell?; Where did that come from? Lobsters?
Supported by millions for almost 20 years, this toxic male believed:
'The multitude, like a woman, is made to be violated.'
Benito Mussolini, 1930.
Very, very good. You've distilled the important points into a stiff brew. To be taken in moderation. Young men--no, all men need to hear you. There are so few men to show as models. Only weasels, grifters, liars, pedos, cultists, and reality deniers who swim together in an endless swamp of anti-intellectual sludge.
Andrew Tate having good ideas is impossible. Loved the article, and loved reading about it all. Shame that there's men who are still for Andrew Tate as he's a lot of words which aren't substack appropriate. Keep up the great work and thanks for posting about this.
So what did the kid say?
It's implied in the article.
I could not find anything in your article about what the youth actually said other than the initial statement. So your essay is just a bunch of slogans and rhetoric. I guess you don’t teach journalism.
I don't think you are getting that this post is not about what he specifically said. It's about the fact that even a student taking a course on women's history can be taking in by this shit.
He came up to you after class and I still don’t know how your conversation went.
I’m a psychotherapist. It takes more than one session to help someone. Instead of seeing this as a teaching moment it seems you saw it as an outrage moment and an opportunity to create more outrage on Substack maybe so you can get more Likes and Subscribers.
Also. Of course I post content to get people to read it. Why ELSE would I post???
This post is not a play by play of the conversation we had. That was never the intent.
I also was not his therapist. I was his professor. I had a half hour conversation with him and he rerurned next class to learn more.
This post was not a transcript. My story was a narrative jumping off point for a post I wanted to write.
If you don't like my style, that's fine. But that doesn't make me a bad writer, a bad teacher, or a bad academic.
Respectfully, get a new hobby.
But once you ask, “Which ideas?” the whole thing begins to wobble.
Because if the “good idea” is “men should exercise,” that is not an Andrew Tate idea. That is a gym teacher idea. That is a doctor idea. That is a “your knees will start making rice cereal noises after thirty” idea.2
If the “good idea” is “young men should take responsibility for their lives,” that is not Andrew Tate. That is every grandmother, coach, mentor, therapist, and exhausted older sibling who has ever looked at a young man playing video games for thirteen hours straight and said, “Please drink water and apply for something.”
If the “good idea” is “men are lonely and need guidance,” fine. True. Let’s talk about it. Young men are lonely. Many are isolated. Many are angry. Many are emotionally underdeveloped because they have been raised in a culture that treats tenderness like a design flaw and vulnerability like an invasive species. That is a real problem.
No. I teach history. Which you'd know if you actually read the post with any attention. There's 3 paragraphs where I talk about "good ideas" which I debunk. Each of them was paraphrased from the student.
What the fuck has happened to a college education. In my generation you wouldn’t have gotten out of freshman year much less ended up a professor.
Based on what? You not liking my writing style on substack???
Your inability to support your argument with citations.
I think he crashed on us? Not thinking ‘landing’ was intended.
What?