89 Comments
User's avatar
Julie Martineau's avatar

Thank you for this rant.

I think something was left behind in your essay, though.

This worldview, that there is "no ROI" in women orgasming, has a very dark, very violent corollary: a permission structure to r*pe.

I think this way of thinking is a direct link to the idea that a man has no need for a woman's consent at all.

I feel this is the loudest unsaid thing in this entire conversation.

ProfessorMeredith's avatar

True, but that was a whole separate rant and the article was getting long. I do want to do an episode on my podcast about the way Western society pathologized women as not having sexual urges and I think I might bring that up as part of the discussion there!

Brandie Persons's avatar

Yes exactly that…that's also why they think it's ok to rape kids, just saying if they see sex as primarily something they take from someone who doesn't like it ..it's not good.

Gladio Ad Calamum's avatar

I've now read this for a third time, and felt the other issue not addressed is the latent homosexuality and consequent homophobia with many of these "men". The performative elements by themselves is circumstantial, but put into action as a political act is direct evidence. It's fear put into politics, at the expense of others.

Adding this from BadWoman:

https://badwoman.substack.com/p/the-homoeroticism-of-conservative?r=49xyrl&utm_medium=ios

kathleen's avatar

Had the same thought...😓

Rhymes With "Brass Seagull"'s avatar

Indeed, it is literally the very heart and soul of rape culture.

KTMG's avatar

It is nice how many men are publicly declaring themselves ineligible for intimacy before women have to find out by actually sleeping with them

Tiffany the Cat Lady's avatar

I once had a guy tell me he never does "honey do lists". I thought, "Excellent. Now I know this dude is a piece of shit and I don't need to talk to him anymore." 🤷🏻‍♀️😂

Carol O'Neill's avatar

Saves us a WHOLE lot of misery.

Rhymes With "Brass Seagull"'s avatar

Indeed, sooner or later, they always seem to tell on themselves. Better sooner than later!

So Very Jaded's avatar

The ROI thing is just a man admitting he can’t make a woman come. My husband and I died laughing when Ben Shapiro basically admitted that by framing it as an infection. And why would any woman sign up for a sexual partner like that? This piece is everything. Well done.

Ethereal Fairy's avatar

I was tempted to explain to Ben Shapiro about female ejaculation, and how it was one the most rewarding experiences ever! Then I realized he has no idea, because he's not into women, at all.

Parents’ Room's avatar

I don’t think I have ever come across such a miserable group of young people. To define mutual arousal and pleasure as “time wasting” has got to be the saddest little thing (in all manners of the word…) on the internet right now.

Steven U's avatar

Right? It's fine to not be attracted to women, but why on earth are you dating someone you aren't willing to please sexually? If all you care about is your own orgasm, then literally just buy some sex toys and go to town on yourself.

John Westhora's avatar

Maybe those men should just have sex with their bros, instead.

What's the ROI on a Dutch Rudder with protein powder as lube?

Groundfloor Musings's avatar

🤣🤣🤣🤣 my thoughts exactly. The love they have for each other is undefeated.

Enchanted Forest Art Press's avatar

Women are collectively bargaining. And men will be alone and "under babied" until their needs are met. The needs? Pleasure, control over our own bodies, equality in our careers, men doing their fair share of house work, economic systems that make sense to have babies in. The right to still not get pregnant. Why would young women surrender their futures to a boy who thinks its gay to give her pleasure? Or to even wash his own private parts? Make it make sense

Gladio Ad Calamum's avatar

My wife and I read this, and her first comment? Stop Giving Men Microphones! 😏

https://youtu.be/niCfuCSE0z0?si=8YZCivNB9F8mRDcv

Lori Gorton's avatar

So well said...and SO well written. Excellent piece, albeit depressing truths.

Lynette's avatar

"The first thing to say is simple: it should matter to your partner that you orgasm.

That should not be controversial. That should not be radical. That should not require a manifesto, a research grant, or a hostage negotiation with the most emotionally constipated corners of the internet. And yet here we are, because the bar is in hell and somehow some influencer boys still showed up with a shovel."

Mara's avatar

The hilarious part is that these dudes don't even get to choose their own masturbatory devices. The culture is so restrictive that only certain body shapes, certain heights, hair colors, SKIN colors qualify as "manosphere approved".

I'm a fat woman and I can't tell you how many men have wanted to hook up with me, but only so long as their bros never find out. Having sex with a fat girl costs you manhood points, ENJOYING sex with a fat girl straps you of your manhood altogether. I still (well, always) get suspicious when a man shows interest. Like is he going to take me home to meet his mother, or is he going to pretend he doesn't know me in public?

And now that "thin is in" again, I expect the range of acceptable bodies to fuck is also going to shrink, along with the skin color range.

ProfessorMeredith's avatar

Ugh, I’m not looking forward to heroinchic coming back.

Pat McKay's avatar

Heroin chic is already back. Look at the celebrities abusing weight loss drugs. Demi Moore, Exhibit A.

Ethereal Fairy's avatar

I always wanted to feed them, rather than fuck them, malnourished is not sexy.

ProfessorMeredith's avatar

I don’t want to sleep with someone who looks like they might snap like a twig

Mark's avatar
Jun 1Edited

Packaged male fragility — a scam that works because the grievance club never lets anyone leave. Two thousand years ago, it was soldiers around a campfire trying to convince each other of their alpha-ness. Today, same campfire, in a different war.

E. M. Wozniak's avatar

I just read this article yesterday, and it feels like a confession for exactly what you’ve described here: the primary goal of men being proof of their masculinity to other men. https://lastbluedog.substack.com/p/progressives-dont-understand-masculinity?r=50gwq&utm_medium=ios

Naheed Kamal's avatar

I think these men have never been with a truly aroused woman. They've heard women get wet but they have never managed to get a woman wet so they are coming up with all this crap. What losers. I feel terribly sorry for the women who have to deal with these kinds of men.

Feminist Science's avatar

Love your substack! Hence why the romance novel sales is over $1 billion dollars annually in the US --now that's an ROI!

ProfessorMeredith's avatar

I’m writing a polycule romance right now!

Jaden Willis's avatar

I hate when liberals call men like Clavicular gay because it plays into the same patriarchal framework that posits queerness as shameful.

I appreciate the professor being careful to not weaponize closeted queerness against men like this, even while noting that the patriarchy causes men to be closeted! 🙏

Excellent work as always!

Tmina's avatar

This whole bro culture is very gay without the style and verve. Men dressing, posing and it’s all for other bros.